3 Navy Seals Prosecuted for Terrorist Busted Lip
These Navy Seals caught one of the top terrorist in Iraq. One of the officers hit the terrorist in the lip and 2 others gave false statements on what happened. While I think they should be punished, I don’t think it should lead to a court martial out of the military. They did catch one of the top terrorist in Iraq. That should carry some weight I would think. Our guys shouldn’t be holding hands and giving the guy the royal treatment. If the terrorist is mouthing off about killing Americans or taking pleasure in killing Americans, I think a punch to the lip is well deserving. There is a line between causing this type of harm to a citizen versus a terrorist. Terrorist should while human, are still killers.
Let these guys do their job, it’s what they are good at!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html
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Except that anyone can be defined as a terrorist under the Patriot Act. We only ever have the government and their media to help us tell the difference between a citizen and terrorist. I agree that a full court marshall seems excessive, but we can not excuse soldiers who use circumstances to justify barbaric behavior, especially when they lie. Professionals are supposed to be emotionally removed from their work, otherwise maybe they should be doing something else they can handle.
Im sure there is this sudden fear among the military that if they do their actual jobs and a terrorist gets hurt then…they’ll be the one in the hotseat not the terrorist.
Get those guys out of the Middle East! The Obama admin is making a mockery of the military and its causing some valuable people to die.
Well we don’t know why the guy had a busted lip. Was it during the capture? Was it during interrogation? If he was in custody and got hit for running his mouth, punishment should happen. But if it was during the course of capture, well…let the soldiers make those judgment calls. If he is in a cell, then no he shouldn’t have been punched. We don’t know and the media/government is making it sound like they did it while in custody.
@JoshB: When I say terrorist, I mean by what you and I would consider a terrorist. Someone with the intent of hurting innocent people. Not what the Patriot Act states.
Good/evil terrorist/patriot innocent/corrupt – it’s all relative to what we’re led to believe at any given time. As Harvey Dent put it: ‘Die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villan’ when you start acting like your enemy when dealing with your enemy, you loose what separates you from being the enemy.
Josh, I imagine you have never risked your life to protect America. Those who hide behind our soldiers are quick to condemn them so their own consciences can feel safe. Cowards attack those who show that their is a way bravely, they wish the whole world to live in their degree of fear. Let me tell you something. I was in BUD/S, Navy SEAL training. I didn’t make the environment changed me. Navy SEALs aren’t cowboys going around bashing in whomever’s head they feel like. Yet they do realize that their are evil men out there that are ruthless. People like you can say that evil is interpretable, because you never had to work on your buddy as he is dying from jumping on a grenade to save your other friends. You never saw the video that terrorist recently sent to the families of several Marines. In the video the Marines heads were cut off. The class before me in BUD/S had to watch that because they weren’t taking training seriously enough. These men would rape you then cut your head off if they had the chance, you think its an exaggeration but you have removed yourself from that world and the only glimpse into that world you receive is from the news, who are cowards as well. Let the brave men do their work and shut up because you use movies as defense, not real life.
First off Matt, thanks for stopping by. I always like seeing new faces around my blog. I’ve approved your comment (sorry for delay), but you should be good to comment freely now. Also big thanks for serving our country! My dad did 25 years enlisted. While he didn’t see “action”, he still provided logistics, support and kept the vehicles running for our guys.
While I am with you Matt and believe our guys know how to handle the situations better than us, I think Josh is trying to play devil’s advocate. Additionally trying to make the case that we have to be above the enemy in treatment. I agree to a degree. A punch lip to me isn’t really much cause for court martial trained men. Now if we were executing or cutting of heads of our enemies, then I would have to say yes. We must show our strength and take control of the enemy, but at the same time show compassion once they are beaten. Let the men and women do their job in the military, but they have to be mindful of the perception of their actions. I truly believe most liberals politicians use our guys as puppets in their agenda. Nothing riles me up more than a political campaign against our armed men and women. I have yet to see a recent case that was just in that call.
I hope you stick around Matt and give us your point of view. The more the merrier
Glad you stepped in with your diplomatic grace there Estel; it’s appreciated. My tone was going to be somewhat different, as I don’t take kindly to being called a coward, especially by someone who doesn’t even know me. I was raised a military BRAT, as my dad served in the Navy for over a decade and a half. I have stood toe-to-toe with those who could hold me in contempt or arrest me, in order to protect my rights or the rights of others (no small feat I assure you). There are many ways to gain wordly wisdom, even on this subject.
People seriously need to back of this idea that criticizing the actions of a particular soldier is somehow automatically an attack on the military and all soldiers everywhere. You can find people in every job that abuse their position. When we do, the right thing is to admonish them, not excuse their behavior. If the injuries happened during the scuffle to control the situation, then I have no problem. But the fact that there was an attempted coverup by other soldiers involved, implies that even THEY thought they were in a very grey area. For this reason alone, I do have a problem with their actions.
If someone believes that dealing with evil gives us a right to stop being good when dealing with them, I will stand on principal that they are dangerously wrong. Evil wins by corrupting Good. If we are the Good, we must always remember that.
This is outragous!!!!!! Its a busted lip for…and he is a terrorist, more than likely, planned to kill americans or has done it! Navy seals pur their lives in danger often for the greater good of americans. They might lose their cool sometimes…they do probably have one of the most dangerous jobs!!! We are all human and will make mistakes. The two seals that lied becuase they are a brotherhood that believes in the team and will stand up for the leader…this isnt right
You really need to shut your dumb mouth Josh. It’s all “relative” to what we’re “led to believe” at any time? This is the terrorist who killed FOUR American soldiers, tortured them, burned them, then HUNG THEIR CORPSES FROM A BRIDGE IN CELEBRATION! And you think our Navy SEALs were barbaric?!? You need to leave the country so your idiocy doesn’t rub off on anybody else.
@ImfromCali Your tolerance and wit astounds me. The best you can muster in opposition to my points are for me to ‘shut my dumb mouth’. I guess I should say ‘make me’ and ‘you and what army’ as an appropriate response.
You want me to leave the country because you think I’m wrong. Sounds like a great idea to kick out people who disagree with others, however I made my point before you made yours, so maybe you should be the one leaving first.
Yes, I think people who use violence against those who no longer pose an immediate threat to them is barbaric. Likewise, I think those who lie to protect people who do wrong are not honorable. If they thought what he did was the right thing to do (or at least mildly understandable), then they should have said the truth. They could have even given half the reasons for doing as some of the people on this blog, but they didn’t. They were not proud of what happened, and most likely thought no one would ever find out. If being American is about acting out in revenge against people who can’t defend themselves against your violence (kinda what we say the bad people do), then I no longer want to call myself one.
Let’s face it, this event was a screw up. I’m pretty sure most people agree it was a mistake no matter how you look at it. Then only issue is whether anyone cares. In the end, it probably doesn’t matter because these marines won’t change policy, and heck we’re a nation that tortures these kinds of people anyway, so what’s a busted lip?! But can we at least have the honesty and dignity to call a cigar a cigar?
Please let our armed forces protect us in whatever way is neccessary. If we do not support them now we may have to learn how to live under terrorist rules. True American Heroes are the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. God Bless the USA.
Coming from someone that has ACTIVELY served in the US Infantry for 4 years let me say this:
Josh, I can say that I don’t believe you should leave America, it’s more appropriate that you should have yourself, all of your belongings and family boxed all up and shipped to the “other” country of your choice.
I want you to be comfortable to defend your rights against the hordes of foreign,non-Christians who will then systematically come to destroy your way of life, your property, your family. For all of the idle talk about “standing toe to toe” and being an “army brat” I believe the greatest thing you’ve ever done for this country is to pay taxes while yelling at some right wing tv host. The fact is, some of the most miserable and worthless people in this country had military parents: Jim Morrison for example.
And this isn’t an issue of “disagreement”, your simply wrong. We can all sit around and quote people with cute little witticisms but the fact is, in the field, life on the line, there is no (and I repeat NO) extent we must not go to in order to win. In fact, we must go beyond the enemy’s limits to truly strike fear. That is why we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki; and why the Japanese then surrendered.
We will not become the enemy in doing so because we clearly possess the ethics and freedoms that we had before the war. You cannot unlearn these.
I agree, we must exhibit absolute professionalism in our handling of the enemy in both capture, interrogation, and execution. Swiftly, surely and without remorse.
Between you and Estel I can tell you that all of this fairness, relativism, mindfulness and hand wringing is what causes America to lose wars and lose itself. You have no recollection of the amount of day to day suffering and death that our enemies inflict on their own people and one day us.
@scsmit1 – Good job at making me not want to pay attention to any valid points you may have wanted to make. Although on a normal day, I may have decided to agree with some aspects of things you said, you decision to insult me as your opening salvo turns me off of talking to you as a rational and intelligent person, and just makes me glad you are the good little soldier instead of someone handling more delicate things like peace talks, treaties, diplomacy and the like. Those positions are reserved for people who are willing to understand all angles of an issue before acting on them. Now that we’ve adequately swapped insults, let me continue with this:
1) Your decision to ship my family off with me in the comfy box assumes a lot. You’re willing to pass judgment on my spouse and kids simply because a statement I have made about my own opinions. Maybe in your house everyone simply bows down to your control, but I wanted a wife with a good head on her shoulders and has her own thoughts. I want my kids to grow up with the ability to think for themselves. It is this same kind of over-generalization which gets us into trouble. I understand that as a soldier, you need to have a clear enemy, so stereotypes become a way of survival, but that stuff doesn’t cut it in the real world.
2) I’m not sure why you decided to downplay being raised in a military family as trivial. Yes, Jim Morrison had a military dad, but so do your kids. Are you trying to tell me that if they don’t join the armed forces, that all your experience and teachings to them from your service will be meaningless? I’m pretty sure you aren’t, so why don’t you back off trying to say that being a military BRAT is somehow less important, especially when my father actively served for multiples of your career length (include being a veteran of a foreign war). Otherwise I want you to start telling your military friends’ families what you think of them since they aren’t ‘actively serving’ either.
Lastly, I’m just done discussing things with people like you. You bring out the worst imagery of what an American soldier is instead of the best. We are the good guys. We are the ones that get the job done right, but never step over the line. We have integrity, and you’ll never have to wonder if you’ll get beat up, tortured, or killed while in our custody (unlike many of our enemies’ camps). But maybe that was the old days. The days when I was younger and still believed in real heroes, not people who just get labeled that way simply because of the uniform they put on, but because of how they conduct themselves while in that uniform.
The problem with people like you is that you somehow think that things only matter if there’s a gun involved. Let me see you in a situation where you can’t use a gun. Let me see you stare down the target end of the IRS, Dept of Child Services, law enforcement, court of law, or any other agency able to drastically change your life when they decide to point their sites at you. You belittle me because I’ve never had an enemy point a gun at me, well I’ll say the same to you. Because only a person who has never stood up to those in power can truly believe that it’s any different. Although you won’t die, your life and those of your loved ones could still be at stake. So go on with your totalitarian, absolutist beliefs. I’ll take solace in the fact that you’ll always do what you’re told by those who are higher up the chain, so as long as our country controls them, you’ll be kept in line (or if you no longer serve, it doesn’t matter anyway). You can respond, but I won’t dignify your further insults with any. Just want to make sure you don’t take my leaving this topic as a victory of any sort. You simply pissed me off, it’s not the same thing. Maybe you’ll grow up a little by the next topic.
I’ll always be amazed at how the person advocating for non-violence seems to anger those most who want to inflict it…
Josh, Blah Blah Blah..more hippie/yippie trash talk from you. No big surprise. Also not surprising is your purposeful lack of attention to detail and fact so you can continue trying to control the direction of every other opinion in here.
First, I need not pass judgement on anyone but you, however, “your kind” is the most close-minded of people who might only, finally, understand your failure if it comes from the loss and lament of those close to you. Sometimes not even then.
Second, I didn’t say ALL military “brats”, I said “some”. If you’re going to be a T-totaling, self appointed, conceited, autocrat you might try to actually being accurate and reading details. And by the way, your clearly suffering from some sort of personality/inferiority complex or you wouldn’t be quite so sensitive.
Third, my kids are very well educated and easily recognize the folly of you left wingers on their own. And it is “people like me” who actually protected all these rights and freedoms that you have. Your welcome!
Last, I don’t need you to justify or dignify anything I say or believe. History already has, and will continue to support my words. Fact is, I am a very self directing person which is why I left the service AND why I hope to meet people like you in person.
REMOVED EXPLICIT LANGUAGE. – Estel Powell
While I believe everyone has the right to their opinion, nobody should be vulgar. I admire spirited debate, but not the use of foul language back and forth.